ORS n.216669 + ORB n.404145 Maj. Aronov Yelizar Mendelevich

[joelabrendola]

ORS n.216669

Maggiore-Ingegnere Aronov Yelizar Mendelevich (Aronov Leonid Mikhailovich)

Avevo già postato le foto di questa ORS screwbase, http://www.rkka.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28024 ma ora la riposto qui, tra le 'ricerche d'archivio', insieme alla documentazione inerente saltata fuori dopo le ricerche.

La cosa più affascinante però, è che per un caso strano io e Filo abbiamo scoperto di essere, inconsciamente fino ad ora, possessori di due delle decorazioni del Maggiore ARONOV, e casualmente abbiamo scoperto questa specie di 'reciprocità' solo perché avevamo deciso di fare negli stessi giorni le stesse ricerche sullo stesso decorato! Abbastanza incredibile, no ?!

Io dunque posterò le foto della Stella Rossa ad Aronov appartenuta, mentre Filo completerà con l'altro ordine di cui è in possesso, e soprattutto integrerà ancor più la documentazione da me prodotta, essendo la sua più completa della mia.

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Wartime award card

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Purtroppo la pagina n°2 relativa non è presente...

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[filo]

Joe!

La cosa più affascinante però, è che per un caso strano io e Filo abbiamo scoperto di essere, inconsciamente fino ad ora, possessori di due delle decorazioni del Maggiore ARONOV, e casualmente abbiamo scoperto questa specie di 'reciprocità' solo perche avevamo deciso di fare negli stessi giorni le stesse ricerche sullo stesso decorato ! Abbastanza incredibile, no ?!

Veramente incredibile , e non avrei mai pensato che potesse capitare all'interno del nostro umile forum, ma questo dimostra anche l'importanza di utilizzare il Database, inserendo non solo i seriali degli ordini in nostro possesso, ma anche quelli mancanti, provenienti dalle record card (uchotnaya kartochka), in caso di collimazione, il sistema segnala in automatico l'evento, e avverte l'amministratore, che avverte i ricercatori interessati.

ORB n.404145

Maggiore-Ingegnere Aronov Yelizar Mendelevich

Intanto per cominciare, metto le immagini anche del mio Stendardo Rosso, anche lui facente parte del medagliere, e gia discusso qui http://www.rkka.it/forum/viewtopic.php?p=546292#p546292 assegnato ad Aronov, per lungo servizio.
Da notare che il nostro Aronov è Ebraico, e più avanti scoprirete che ha anche subito una espulsione, insomma un caratterino un po' ribelle...

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[Airon]

Beh, questo è un evento davvero molto raro...
Forse avete avuto un venditore in comune che ha diviso un gruppo, ma al di la di questo è bello che ci sia la possibilità di riunire il tutto.

[gotica1945]

veramente interessante

[filo]

Questa è la Tessera di Servizio (uchotno-posluzhnaya kartochka) da me richiesta, insieme alla Tessera di Registrazione, (già vista sopra),
perché lo Stendardo Rosso da me ricercato non poteva avere una citazione essendo post bellico, e poteva essere stato assegnato solo per Lungo Servizio.

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[filo]

Interessante notare nel punto 7, la sua espulzione dal Partito.

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7. Partito affiliazione
Membro del Partito Comunista dal: 1940 [Cancellato]
Partito appartenenza libretto nr.: 3905551 [Cancellato]
Membro candidato del Partito Comunista dal:
Membro del Komsomol dal:
Non un membro del partito:
L'adesione di altri soggetti:
Sanzioni di partito e cambiamenti di partito di appartenenza: Espulso nell'ottobre del 1944 a causa di una violazione con la decisione del Consiglio dei Commissari del Popolo della SSR ucraino del 5 agosto 1944

[filo]

Infine la sua foto e un dubbio...

Perchè il suo nome durante il tempo di guerra è Aronov Leonid Mikhailovich, e post WW cambia in Aronov Yelizar Mendelevich?
Io posso ipotizzare che il primo sia stato usato in tempo di guerra per la sua sicurezza in caso di cattura per occultare le sue origini Ebraiche...

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P.s. Un grazie ad Auke per la collaborazione

[airfix]

Be', congratulazioni a tutti e due! Un bel lavoro di gruppo

[Airon]

Perchè il suo nome durante il tempo di guerra è Aronov Leonid Mikhailovich, e post WW cambia in Aronov Yelizar Mendelevich?
Io posso ipotizzare che il primo sia stato usato in tempo di guerra per la sua sicurezza in caso di cattura per occultare le sue origini Ebraiche...

strana come cosa. Bisognerebbe chiedere a Auke se ha già riscontrato questo particolare con personale di religione ebraica.

[Auke]

Non so il motivo per cui 'russificati' il suo nome ovviamente ebrea, ma per qualche ragione, si può vedere che, piuttosto spesso. Qualcuno una volta ha suggerito che questo potrebbe essere stato per nascondere la propria ebraicità per le autorità sovietiche, che erano anche abbastanza antisemita. Sono sicuro che conoscete il famoso scrittore ebreo Vasily Semyonovich Grossman, il cui vero nome era Iosif Solomonovich. Non solo i tedeschi odiavano gli ebrei, al momento. Durante la seconda guerra mondiale questo antisemitismo è stato messo nel dimenticatoio, semplicemente perché tutti questi ebrei erano molto utile per l'Armata Rossa. Posizioni tecniche e mediche particolarmente alti sono stati spesso occupati da ebrei.

P.S. Si dovrebbe considerare di contattare i vostri venditori - chissà, forse tutto il gruppo di Aronov è o è stato di recente sul mercato.


I don't know why they 'russified' his obviously Jewish name, but for some reason we can see that rather often. Somebody once suggested that this may have been to hide one's Jewishness from the Soviet authorities, which were also quite antisemitic. I'm sure you know the famous Jewish writer Vasily Semyonovich Grossman, whose real name was Iosif Solomonovich. Not just the Germans hated the Jews at the time. During World War Two this antisemitism was put on the back burner simply because all these Jews were quite useful to the Red Army. Especially senior technical and medical positions were often occupied by Jews.

P.S. You should consider contacting your sellers - who knows, maybe Aronov's entire group is or recently has been on the market.

[filo]

I don't know why they 'russified' his obviously Jewish name, but for some reason we can see that rather often. Somebody once suggested that this may have been to hide one's Jewishness from the Soviet authorities, which were also quite antisemitic. I'm sure you know the famous Jewish writer Vasily Semyonovich Grossman, whose real name was Iosif Solomonovich. Not just the Germans hated the Jews at the time. During World War Two this antisemitism was put on the back burner simply because all these Jews were quite useful to the Red Army. Especially senior technical and medical positions were often occupied by Jews.

Thanks Auke, so it is to be excluded, the replacement of the name for reasons of war in case of capture?

P.S. You should consider contacting your sellers - who knows, maybe Aronov's entire group is or recently has been on the market.

I don't know, this was my first ORB, purchased in Italy eight years ago.
Joe told me that the ORS comes from outside Italy, and I do not know the time of purchase.

[Airon]

Thanks Auke, so it is to be excluded, the replacement of the name for reasons of war in case of capture?

Given Auke's answer seems plausible to me the change of name for the "jewiness"... i still wonder why protect the identity of a middle ranked official that probably saw little to none of the frontline during the entire war (and also expelled from the party)!

Joe told me that the ORS comes from outside Italy, and I do not know the time of purchase.

So it was probably split long time ago... the footprint of the seller is common "uninterested and fast-profit minded".

[filo]

Thanks Auke, so it is to be excluded, the replacement of the name for reasons of war in case of capture?

Given Auke's answer seems plausible to me the change of name for the "jewiness"... i still wonder why protect the identity of a middle ranked official that probably saw little to none of the frontline during the entire war (and also expelled from the party)!

I don't believe this, in 1943 he had already the false name, and his expulsion took place in 1944 ...
And I don't think that in 1940 someone could join the party with a fake identity.
Practically Aronov has only spent the war under a false name.

[Airon]

Thanks Auke, so it is to be excluded, the replacement of the name for reasons of war in case of capture?

Given Auke's answer seems plausible to me the change of name for the "jewiness"... i still wonder why protect the identity of a middle ranked official that probably saw little to none of the frontline during the entire war (and also expelled from the party)!

I don't believe this, in 1943 he had already the false name, and his expulsion took place in 1944 ...
And I don't think that in 1940 someone could join the party with a fake identity.
Practically Aronov has only spent the war under a false name.

I haven't said that he faked his identity.
Obviously that thing has been officially crafted by purpose and for a reason related to the war, i agree with you, but why?
Since Auke doesn't recall this practice to be usual for jews this has to be done for another reason. Or at least is more likely they have changed the name for another reason.
The party expulsion is another singularity that rises more questions about the subject.
Another thing that i find strange is the citation that is huge for the standard we are accustomed. I never saw a page uttely written for a citation, and i was never expected to see one for a quartermaster official.

[filo]

I haven't said that he faked his identity.
Obviuoisly that thing has been crafted by purpose and for a reason related to the war, i agree with you, but why?
Since Auke doesn't recall this practice to be usual for jews this has to be done for another reason. Or at least is more likely they have changed the name for another reason.
The party expulsion is another singularity that rises more questions about the subject.

If he was poorly tolerated, how do you explain the RS 1946 and the ORB of 1954?

[Airon]

I haven't said that he faked his identity.
Obviuoisly that thing has been crafted by purpose and for a reason related to the war, i agree with you, but why?
Since Auke doesn't recall this practice to be usual for jews this has to be done for another reason. Or at least is more likely they have changed the name for another reason.
The party expulsion is another singularity that rises more questions about the subject.

If he was poorly tolerated, how do you explain the RS 1946 and the ORB of 1954?

ORB 1954 is a long service award and i don't know if it was possible for the party to meddle about it.
It would be nice at this point to see the citation for the RS 1946.
Given that, this man has some singularity in his career.

[Auke]

Thanks Auke, so it is to be excluded, the replacement of the name for reasons of war in case of capture?

I highly doubt that being the reason. Many captured Soviet officers ended up in concentration camps anyway.

Another thing that i find strange is the citation that is huge for the standard we are accustomed. I never saw a page uttely written for a citation, and i was never expected to see one for a quartermaster official.

The citation is indeed longer than average, but remember that this is a 1943 citation. Up until early 1943 - when the awards of orders and medals skyrocketed - it was not that unusual to see longer citations.

[Lapa]

Guys,

You may be looking for dark purposes whereas the explanation might be quite simple: in Worker's Heaven, a person, regardless of its gender, could choose to take his/her spouse's last name. This is still in practice today in most former Soviet Republics.

In the case of a Jew, everyday's life would possibly be simpler having a Russian rather than Jewish name.

Marc

[Airon]

Guys,

You may be looking for dark purposes whereas the explanation might be quite simple: in Worker's Heaven, a person, regardless of its gender, could choose to take his/her spouse's last name. This is still in practice today in most former Soviet Republics.

In the case of a Jew, everyday's life would possibly be simpler having a Russian rather than Jewish name.

Marc

I agree but what about the patronimic?

[filo]

Guys,

You may be looking for dark purposes whereas the explanation might be quite simple: in Worker's Heaven, a person, regardless of its gender, could choose to take his/her spouse's last name. This is still in practice today in most former Soviet Republics.

In the case of a Jew, everyday's life would possibly be simpler having a Russian rather than Jewish name.

Marc

Marc, this explanation convinces me.
But at the moment we have only this information, in point 24.

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