Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950'

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RichieC
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

Messaggio da RichieC »

Embroidered M40 General cockarde - A custom made private purchase, as the cap is attributed to Kliment Voroshilov.
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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30MM and no doubt in my mind about this being German made.
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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What I believe to be a German made example of the M55 Generals cockarde. Note the high quality workmanship...
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GC*
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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What an amazing show of great cockades!

I have been after the black star since a long time - with poor results.

As for the painted star BBC cockade and the embroidered Marshal cockade I am stunned. Never seen such peieces before.

But let me ask you if I understood correctly..the cap that bears the emroidered Marshals' cockade belonged to Kliment Voroshilov??..

Moreover, interesting 30mm star. I have seen similar models around and I do agree this is a German reparations piece. However the reverse of this one is something absolutely new for me. What is the use of that round metal plaque? Is it holding the prongs?

Finally, very interesting theoy concerning the two-pieces M55 cockade. Given the white - and not golden - background I always thought this was an Officers' cockade. The quality of the cockade is really stunning. Taking the photo from this topics, http://www.rkka.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=28681, here comes a comparison between a Soviet made Generals and Marshals cockade a typical Soviet brass cap star for Officers and the M55 cockade here at issue, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=138031 .

I always asked myself where this strange two-pieces high quality cockade came from..
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto: Finally, very interesting theoy concerning the two-pieces M55 cockade. Given the white - and not golden - background I always thought this was an Officers' cockade. The quality of the cockade is really stunning. Taking the photo from this topics, http://www.rkka.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=28681, here comes a comparison between a Soviet made Generals and Marshals cockade a typical Soviet brass cap star for Officers and the M55 cockade here at issue, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=138031 .
If I recall correctly, the oval cockarde with a golden centre was introduced in 1964...
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto: The cap that bears the emroidered Marshals' cockade belonged to Kliment Voroshilov?
Yes, it did. It now resides with David Webster, along with two of his M40 uniforms.
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto:Moreover, interesting 30mm star. I have seen similar models around and I do agree this is a German reparations piece. However the reverse of this one is something absolutely new for me. What is the use of that round metal plaque? Is it holding the prongs?
Exactly it's purpose as the prongs are not soldered/welded to the reverse of the star.
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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RichieC ha scritto:
GC* ha scritto: Finally, very interesting theoy concerning the two-pieces M55 cockade. Given the white - and not golden - background I always thought this was an Officers' cockade. The quality of the cockade is really stunning. Taking the photo from this topics, http://www.rkka.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=28681, here comes a comparison between a Soviet made Generals and Marshals cockade a typical Soviet brass cap star for Officers and the M55 cockade here at issue, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=138031 .
If I recall correctly, the oval cockarde with a golden centre was introduced in 1964...
Now that I think of it, that may not be true. I have never really did much studying on these but I suppose I should... :idea:
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GC*
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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Now that I think of it, that may not be true. I have never really did much studying on these but I suppose I should... :idea:
According to the researches I made consulting Soviet MO regulations, the brass two-pieces goldened oval cockade for Generals-Marshals was present already in 1955. However, since I did not get to check earlier regulations, I am not completely sure about when cap stars were replaced by oval cap badges.

What I am sure of is that all brass cockades were replaced by alluminium ones in 1959 (with a short period in which the two-pieces construction was maintained).

:arrow: http://www.rkka.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=28681

Richie, did you actually ever get the chance to consult pre-1930s regulations?
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto:According to the researches I made consulting Soviet MO regulations, the brass two-pieces goldened oval cockade for Generals-Marshals was present already in 1955. However, since I did not get to check earlier regulations, I am not completely sure about when cap stars were replaced by oval cap badges.?
The oval cockardes as a whole were introduced in 1955 for junior, senior, and General/Marshal commanding structure, I do remember that. Soldiers kept regular stars on visor caps and winter headgear (there was a variation change in 1964) until 1969 when the wreathed star was introduced. The 27MM star was used on pilotka and a few other miscellaneous soft headgear until the end...
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto:Richie, did you actually ever get the chance to consult pre-1930s regulations?
Not in great detail.
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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Here is another anomaly - it is 41MM and made from very heavy brass. I can only assume that it is German made...
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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RichieC ha scritto:
GC* ha scritto:Slightly changing our focus Richie, but I really would like to hear your opinion on the first star I posted in my previous long message where I attach all my "non-textbook" stars ( http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139738 ). THis always interested me a lot, because of the several differences with usual Soviet design. Would love to hear what you think about it!

I own one of these also - it came in a lot of insignia I bought from a colleague in Germany. Going by the metal and enamel work, I am only able to guess that it is also a reparation made piece...

I found an image of mine - it's twin...
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GC*
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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The oval cockardes as a whole were introduced in 1955 for junior, senior, and General/Marshal commanding structure, I do remember that. Soldiers kept regular stars on visor caps and winter headgear (there was a variation change in 1964) until 1969 when the wreathed star was introduced. The 27MM star was used on pilotka and a few other miscellaneous soft headgear until the end...
Agree on everything - forgot to mention in my previous message I was referring to Officers and Generals' stars.

Therefore, as the change from brass to alluminium happened in 1959, we can assume the German made brass star pre-dates such change. The point is: its two-pieces structure resembles the structure of Soviet-made Generals and Marshals' cockadesm while the white and not goldened colour reminds of the classic brass Soviet-made Officers' cockade. To me, it seems more probable that such German model was used by Officers rather than by Generals-Marshals, sue to the white camp on which the central star is lied. What do you say, Richie?
Here is another anomaly - it is 41MM and made from very heavy brass. I can only assume that it is German made...
The 41MM star is a real beauty. At first sight one runs the risk of confusing it with the regular M1936 38MM Soviet star. But there are indeed several key differences. A wonderful star indeed Richie!
I found an image of mine - it's twin...
Yes, twin indeed! Nice speciman, less damaged than mine and with both prongs.
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto:Therefore, as the change from brass to alluminium happened in 1959, we can assume the German made brass star pre-dates such change. The point is: its two-pieces structure resembles the structure of Soviet-made Generals and Marshals' cockadesm while the white and not goldened colour reminds of the classic brass Soviet-made Officers' cockade. To me, it seems more probable that such German model was used by Officers rather than by Generals-Marshals, sue to the white camp on which the central star is lied. What do you say, Richie?
I have a reference book somewhere that covers these. I'll scan and post the page here when I find it. Also, we can always check with Den... :ugeek:
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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One more interesting example. It is 39MM and made from thin brass:
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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This 24MM specimen is quite interesting, as it is cast, not die stamped...
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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35MM & 22MM respectively.
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GC*
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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Richie, I knew very soon after your appearance on this forum I would have been clearly reminded how long is the way I still have to go.. You do seem to have a never ending amount of superb pieces. Thank you so much for taking the time to share them with us and my most incere compliments for the impressive quality of your collection!

I find particularly impressive the 39MM painted tin star, build in two separate pieces.

Some details of the last three models of painted stars you posted, vaguely remind me of the three stars I showed earlier in this topic, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139653 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139655 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139665 .
At this point the questio is..are they all German-made?

-

Richie, sapevo che molto presto dopo la tua comparsa sul forum mi sarebbe stato ricordato quanta strada devo ancora fare.. Sembra che tu abbia un ammontare infinito di pezzi superbi. Grazie mille per condividerli con noi e i miei più sinceri complimenti per la qualità impressionante della tua collezione!

Trovo particolarmente impressionante la stella 39MM verniciata costruita su due pezzi.

I find particularly impressive the 39MM painted tin star, build in two separate pieces.

Alcuni dettagli delle ultime tue tre stelle verniciate mi ricordano vagamente le tre da me prima postate, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139653 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139655 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139665 .
A questo punto la domanda è..sono tutte di produzione post-bellica tedesca?
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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GC* ha scritto: Some details of the last three models of painted stars you posted, vaguely remind me of the three stars I showed earlier in this topic, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139653 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139655 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139665 .
At this point the questio is..are they all German-made?

-


Alcuni dettagli delle ultime tue tre stelle verniciate mi ricordano vagamente le tre da me prima postate, http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139653 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139655 , http://www.rkka.it/forum/download/file.php?id=139665 .
A questo punto la domanda è..sono tutte di produzione post-bellica tedesca?



To speak honestly, I think they are such, my colleagues in Russia generally agree - However, how can one be 100% certain? There is little photographic evidence of them in use, no records of manufacture, so really, all our assumptions are conjecture, for the time being. Perhaps in the future as we continue our collecting and study of these little gems, something will be uncovered. That is all of the pleasure of hobbies like this...

-----------------

Per parlare onestamente, penso che tali, essi sono generalmente d'accordo i miei colleghi in Russia - tuttavia, come può uno essere certo del 100%. C'è l'evidenza fotografica poco di loro in uso, nessun record di fabbricazione, quindi, in realtà, tutte le nostre ipotesi sono congetture, per il momento. Forse in futuro mentre continuiamo la nostra raccolta e studio di questi piccoli gioielli, qualcosa sarà scoperto. Questo è tutto il piacere di hobby come questo...
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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This example does not belong to me. I saw it on a Russian website some years ago and thought it quite interesting. The online store would not ship to the U.S.A. due to the strict customs regulations, so it will never be mine... :(

It seems to be made from tin with a brass hammer & sickle and prongs. I would guess the size would be from 35 - 40MM.

--------------------------------

Questo esempio non appartiene a me. Ho visto su un sito russo alcuni anni fa e pensato che fosse abbastanza interessante. Il negozio online non avrebbe nave U.S.A dovuto le regolazioni di dogana rigoroso, quindi non sarà mai mio... :(

Sembra essere fatto da tin con rebbi & falce e un martello di ottone. Direi che la dimensione sarebbe da 35-40MM.
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Dom
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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RichieC ha scritto:Embroidered M40 General cockarde - A custom made private purchase, as the cap is attributed to Kliment Voroshilov.
Richie,

this cockarde is rather strange ( hammer and sickle ) ?
You can show the inside of the cap , please .
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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No can do Dom at present.

I'll do as I can speedy as possible, as this cap is not in my hands at any given time soon...

-------------------------------------------------------


Non può presentare Dom a.

Io cosa posso fare come veloce come possibile, ma questo tappo non è nelle mie mani in qualunque momento presto...
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Dom
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Re: Fregi a stella "non-textbook" della РККА e CA, IIGM-1950

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Ok thanks Richie
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