Rkka.it Forum

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 1:53 am**

In modo imparziale modesto/grazioso piccolo, sicuro, ma spero di fare un'aggiunta arretrata lunga nelle due prossime settimane.
Riguardo ai numeri di serie; possiamo uscire con questi affatto?

Fairly modest/pretty small, sure, but I hope to make a long overdue addition in the the next two weeks.
Regarding the serial numbers; can we date these at all?

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 1:59 am**

nice i like

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 3:08 pm**

Great start...!!

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 4:12 pm**

Riguardo ai numeri di serie; possiamo uscire con questi affatto?

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 5:44 pm**

Hi Eric, I tried to answer you this morning, but then I accidentally closed my browser and was too lazy to start over again...

Nice pieces you have there! The Brotherhood and Unity and Merit to the People especially: they are both early production, I would guess late '40s, given the relatively low serial numbers, the old screwplates and the nicely aged patina. Unfortunatelly, there is no a precise way to tell the year nor the awarded name from the serial number, when we talk about orders of Yugoslavia. We do not have lists of names from Belgrade archives or whatsoever, and we know that often they were not awarded in progressive order, so it is difficult to tell. What can be said, of course, is a time frame of production, given as I said the serial no. and sometimes the construction.

Let us know when you get the new pieces you were talking about!!

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 5:50 pm**

Grazie per l'aiuto, Drugo! E può contare su di me postando i miei nuovi premi quando arrivano.

Thanks for the help, Drugo! And you can count on me posting my new prizes when they arrive.

Inviato: **ven set 06, 2013 5:56 pm**

You're welcome. If you haven't seen them, here you are three detailed topics for each of the orders you presented, you will find plenty of information there:

Order of Brotherhood and Unity
Order of the Merit to the People
Order of the Work

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 4:19 am**

Ho la sensazione generale che iugoslavo 'Mint' realizzato e prodotto numerosi ordini presso uno o più punti, nelle prime fasi degli anni 50 o così, in estremi numeri. Molto pochi sono stati effettivamente intitially assegnato a quel tempo sarebbe la mia ipotesi. Così il 'The Mint' aveva un sacco di surplus che poi è stata inviata per essere ri-lavorato, forse a volte a zecche minori. Da lì abbiamo ottenere versioni che dovrebbero avere screwposts, ma sono state cambiate a pinbacks.E poi in anni ' 60 o degli anni ' 70 o addirittura degli anni 80 'The Mint' fatto ancor più problemi (di minore qualità premia).Che deve essere il motivo per cui premi jugoslava non scalata in valore il modo sono premi sovietica o mongolo, giusto? C'è semplicemente troppo molti di loro ed essi over-satureate il mercato?L'argento screwplates sui primi premi sono così simili alla Monetny Dvor, ma sembrano essere valutata tanto meno... Non capisco...

I get the general feeling that the Yugoslav 'Mint' made and produced numerous orders at one or more points early on, in the 50s or so, in extreme numbers. Very few were actually intitially awarded at that time would be my guess. So the 'The Mint' had a lot of surplus which was then sent out to to be re-worked, maybe sometimes at lesser mints. From there we get versions that should have screwposts but have been changed to pinbacks.
And then in the 60s or 70s or even 80s 'The Mint' made even more issues (of the lesser quality awards).
That has to be the reason why Yugoslav awards are not climbing in value the way Soviet or Mongolian awards are, right? There is just too many of them and they over-satureate the market?
The silver screwplates on the early awards are so similar to the Monetny Dvor but they seem to be valued so much less.... I don't understand....

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 11:11 am**

Eric, you're right in describing the production cycles of the Yugoslav Mint(s). The most important one was the Croatian IKOM, but the Serbian ones (ZIN/ZNB) produced as well their own orders in later years. In some cases later orders can even be rarer than earlier ones, because less of them were produced.

As for the prices, in the past ten years they have sensibly risen, and they still hold their value. They are indeed much cheaper than Soviet orders, but I would consider Soviet prices as very much inflated, especially for the most common orders/medals or even pins! You can find Orders of the Work or Bravery for as little as 10 euros or less, and I doubt that their prices will rise in the next ten to twenty years, given the huge, crazy amount produced and the low quality, but then if we start discussing higher orders, maybe early productions, you suddenly talk about hundreds if not thousands of euros... so basically Yugoslav orders are very fun to collect and have some interesting pieces, but once you start, if you keep collecting them you will at a certain point get stuck by prices/availability as in the Soviet case.

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 11:51 am**

I fully share Drugo's opinion. Collecting Yugoslav's orders is very peculiar due to the variety of versions developed along the years and thanks God many beautiful pieces are still at reasonable price (how long?). Nevertheless many orders have variations which compete with the soviets for rarity and cost. Also in this case, it would be helpful to have a reference for the "average market price" of the Yugoslavian orders, since on the net there are more and more dealers who exaggerate the prices waiting for the inadvertent collector getting the bite.

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 1:03 pm**

Marko Stok's book offers a value estimate for each single order, but I would say that his estimates are not always consistent, and tend to be often higher than the real prices you encounter on the market.

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 2:56 pm**

Un' cosa che mi stupisce è il valore dei premi dell'argento.Ho smesso di comprare argento premi prima del grande salto dei prezzi dei metalli preziosi. Ora, all'incirca 5 anni più tardi, tornato sto guardando i prezzi (e in un caso effettivamente fare un acquisto) e mi sembra di vedere, nonostante la mia mancanza di memoria, prezzi ancora lo stessi o nascenti solo leggermente. Ancora una volta, questi sono i premi argento e prezzo spot dell'argento è approssimativamente due volte quello che era nel 2007 mentre premi d'argento di Yugo hanno aumentato solo una frazione di quello.È questa domanda e o compagno Stalin colpisce in qualche modo i prezzi di là???

Something else that amazes me is the value of the sterling silver awards.
I stopped buying silver awards before the big jump in precious metal prices(2011). Now, roughly 5 years later, I am back watching prices (and in one case actually making a purchase) and I seem to see, despite my failing memory, prices still the same or rising only slightly. Again, these are silver awards and spot silver price is roughly twice what it was in 2007 while silver Yugo awards have increased only a fraction of that.
Is this supply and demand or is Comrade Stalin somehow affecting prices from beyond???

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 2:58 pm**

Ericfg ha scritto: Is this supply and demand or is Comrade Stalin somehow affecting prices from beyond???

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 3:02 pm**

rocketscientist ha scritto: ... it would be helpful to have a reference for the "average market price" of the Yugoslavian orders, since on the net there are more and more dealers who exaggerate the prices waiting for the inadvertent collector getting the bite.

Lo strumento che trovato più utile per questo è il 'venduto annunci' strumento di ricerca su ebay. Che ci mostra solo gli elementi effettivamente venduti e il prezzo pagato. Che dà una buona scala cosa pagare e anche che i concessionari sono speculatori.
.
The tool I find most helpful for this is the 'sold listings' search tool on ebay. That shows us only items actually sold and the price paid. That gives a good scale of what to pay and also which dealers are speculators.

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 4:53 pm**

Ericfg ha scritto:Now, roughly 5 years later, I am back watching prices (and in one case actually making a purchase) and I seem to see, despite my failing memory, prices still the same or rising only slightly. Again, these are silver awards and spot silver price is roughly twice what it was in 2007 while silver Yugo awards have increased only a fraction of that.
Is this supply and demand or is Comrade Stalin somehow affecting prices from beyond???

"Comrade Stalin" has changed name. Now they call him speculation... the pool of awards is limited and price seems to have found his balance on this values.
The only leverage possible to lower the prices is the number of collectors, the less the better. To rise the prices are two factors, the demand and the speculation.
To me in this last years the speculation is becoming a major problem... sellers sell less and at a very high price.
Common items like OPW85 that i used to buy for 15-20$ 6 years ago now are one Ebay for 40-50$. A post ww2 ORS sells in Italy in a common militaria fair for 60-70€. To me this is pure and simple inflation.
Needless to say it's at least 4 years i don't buy awards in Italy and the last award i bought was a Schmitt one that was a deal after years of buying nothing.
They won't get my ♫♪ gold on the ceiling ♫♪

Inviato: **sab set 07, 2013 5:28 pm**

To me in this last years the speculation is becoming a major problem... sellers sell less and at a very high price.
A post ww2 ORS sells in Italy in a common militaria fair for 60-70€. To me this is pure and simple inflation.♫♪ ♫♪

Che è semplicemente folle! Mi rende solo più difficile cercare di buoni affari.
.
That's just insane!

It just makes me search harder for good deals.

Inviato: **ven set 20, 2013 4:23 pm**

Drugo ha scritto: Let us know when you get the new pieces you were talking about!!

Amici, compagni, ecco, 17 giorni da Zagreb a me. Che una bellezza! È così massiccia.
.
Friends, comrades, Here it is, 17 days from Zagreb to me. What a beauty! It is massive as well

Inviato: **ven set 20, 2013 6:19 pm**

Ericfg ha scritto:
Drugo ha scritto: Let us know when you get the new pieces you were talking about!!
Amici, compagni, ecco, 17 giorni da Zagreb a me. Che una bellezza! È così massiccia.
.
Friends, comrades, Here it is, 17 days from Zagreb to me. What a beauty! It is massive as well

Perfettamente d'accordo...

Infatti, questa decorazione rappresenta il punto di partenza della mia collezione Yugo.

E, sui motivi per cui questa parte di collezione prosegue (e quella sovietica, ahimè, finisce) mi trovo altrettanto perfettamente d'accordo con tutti i commenti letti fino ad ora in questo topic.

Oggi, per esempio, mi è arrivato da Zagabria un'ordine in argento (dovrebbe essere un II° classe) dal Ministero degli Interni, per la permanenza in Polizia, di cui presto posterò le immagini.

Che dire...?
Eric, continua così...

Inviato: **sab set 21, 2013 3:47 am**

E, sui motivi per cui questa parte di collezione prosegue (e quella sovietica, ahimè, finisce) mi trovo altrettanto perfettamente d'accordo con tutti i commenti letti fino ad ora in questo topic.
Che dire...? Eric, continua così...
.
And, why this part of collection continues (and the Soviet Union, alas, ends) I also agree with all the comments read thus far in this topic.What can I say ...? Eric, keep it up.

Un tale premio massiccio e impressionante! 65.7grams...è enorme! Shishkov mi dice mio Nevsky è di circa 40g e questo premio e nani.
Un altro punto è il design. Se si ignora la stella rossa comunista il resto è un completo omaggio a premi imperiale del XIX secolo; spade, grandi raggi di stelle, corone di smalto, placcatura oro, pesante perno, cerniera e catture, grandi dimensioni e tratti distintivi d'argento.
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Such an awesome and massive award! 65.7grams..it is huge! Shishkov tells me my Nevsky is about 40g and this award dwarfs it.
Another point is the design. If you ignore the communist red star the rest of it is a complete homage to 19th century Imperial awards; swords, large star rays, enamel wreaths, gold plating, heavy pin, hinge and catch, large size and silver hallmarks.

Inviato: **sab set 21, 2013 8:37 am**

veramente un bell'oggetto. è facile innamorarsi

Inviato: **sab set 21, 2013 10:52 am**

Hey Eric, nice catch: the Order of Military Merit is a classic for newstarters.

Nice 5 torches version with aged patina, too bad the red star enamel is ruined...

Cheers,
Drugo

Inviato: **sab set 21, 2013 1:25 pm**

Drugo ha scritto: Nice 5 torches version with aged patina, too bad the red star enamel is ruined...

Thanks! I like the worn look and a little enamel damage is not the end of the world.

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